Yes you are right Joseph

you would assume wrong

Our main BJ contract explicity had us attacking Goons during suicide ganks. I just did a quick courtesy check for a repeat client to make sure going after the Goons more aggressively (as Goblin wanted) wouldn't bother him. It didn't, he seemed pretty enthused about it actually.

Goblin's initial offer for an ECM jamming contract was declined (I'd never have accepted such a pointless contract because I understand suicide ganking mechanics from having fought CFC in Jita twice before). The counter offer of 2m/catalyst, 5m Brutix, 10m Talos, and 20% the value of the pods was accepted. This is clearly seen in the mails. Unless you're implying Goblin wanted us to jam pods to death?

EDIT: Gevlon Goblin has taken to blocking my responses to comment questions on that blog post. Should say it all really.

Full quote:



As in ways that work. Attempting to jam a target after it's already fired in a .9 is pointless, especially Tornados/Talos/Brutix. Using AF/Interceptor teams to hit them at their safe spots you lower their ability to get setup and their max alpha.

You're also fast enough to follow them around allowing you to trigger kill rights before they shoot further reducing their damage and ability to coordinate fire.

And finally using inties you have a much higher chance of chasing and catching their pods after the gank which adds massively to the cost of the gank (Catalysts are 2m and given out for free, pods cost 20, 30, even 40m to replace and come out of the pilots wallet)

Goons started suicide ganking our frigate fleets to keep us off them. They left Gevlon's Orca untouched throughout the whole event. Lemmings didnt try to ECM anything. So out of those three methods, the one which caused Goons to change their strategy and spend resources to stop, the one which they ignored, and the one you're talking about which even your own alliance didnt use, which one do you think works best?

Again, 1900 dead CFC. 25B worth. Pew.

Clearly the contracts were not conflicting. If you want exclusive service you put that in your contract and you pay for it.

Entity A says, shoot B for us would ya? Entity C says, shoot A pretty please.

Only entity here I see that could argue conflict would be A, which it seems in this case was OK with it. Turned out C just didn't like B getting shot and never chose to mention that part prior to dealings.

Just my take from reading both sides. Either way, BJ3 was a ton o fun.

You poor thing Joseph. Reading comprehension lvl 1 is not a long train. I highly recommend it.

Also, if we had scamming trained to lvl 5 we would have taken the money BEFORE "scamming" him. News flash, we didn't scam him and he's just being upset about it. Either way, no one cares. Gevlon can try to find our Titan but anyone who bothers will just be wasting their time.

Everyone who is spectating, eating their buttery popcorn, and wearing their ugly 3D glasses will enjoy the show. The best is still to come ;)

Don't really know whether all this happened due to poor communication or intentional misunderstandings.

In real life there are multiple occasions where the customer asks for something, but in reality wants something else.
Now if they go to court they will look at the contract and see that the customer wanted A and got A, clear case.

However an old saying is that an unhappy customer will tell about his experience to 10 people, a happy customer will tell about his experience to one person.

In real life, (eve may differ?) it's not about following or not following the contract, it's about making customers happy.
Edit: And yes, sometimes making the customer happy requires almost psychic skills....

-We didn't reveal the contract till Goblin went off the handle declaring he would not pay and blocking (literally in game, not allowed to contact him at all) any attempt to discuss the issue. At that point he's a scammer not a customer and is being treated accordingly
-We didn't make any deals with the target(s).

I would agree with you 1000% Reppy if either of those things were the case. I've been in the biz over 8 years, I know what not to do.

You should check the kb ;) In good faith to both clients we put CFC through hell.

That Freighter went suspect looting a wreck, who would NOT shoot a suspect freighter? Additionally, notice there are no goons on that kill mail. To the best of my knowledge, there was no arrangement made to only shoot goons.

TBH we did not even know that was Gevlon's alt. Again, to my knowledge, there was no stipulation on not attacking anyone else other then the goons. What we knew was that Gevlon cut his ties from "leading" Lemmings quite a while ago and that they should be treated as any other merc group.

Every other contract we are instructed on who is friendly, who to group with, what to not do, ect. Why should this one be different? I think the problem is a lot of people see Gevlon as still being the leader of the Lemmings, we do not. We see them as just another "mercenary" group.

During our last contract with Galvon, he was VERY, EXTREMELY, AMAZINGLY Specific on what he did and did not want us to do. Who was blue, who to fleet with, how to take the screenshots he wanted, how many POCOs to hit a day, when to attack, when not to attack. Why would we not expect the same this time around?

The important timestamp is the one where Gevlon decided to cut off communication from us.

At the end of the day no ***** were given. Agree or disagree, things are being perceived differently by everyone. Both sides feel slighted and a bunch of random people stating that they won't hire us in the future won't change anything. Guess what? You guys werent going to hire use anyways so it doesnt matter. In fact, we're still fulfilling contracts even after this "incident". All involviing happy clients.

Noir has been completing contracts for years and it will continue to complete contracts.

I'll just leave this here.

What can I say about NOIR.

Consistent, intelligent, trustworthy.

Just a great continuation of an already solid relationship.

+1 would hire again.

My post was in reference to a contract completely separate from an issue that I don't give a f*ck about.

Please continue with your tears though.

so basically everyone who attends fanfest who has two braincells and realises how much of a complete numpty gevlon is? you're not exactly shortlisting here.

Like many others I have followed this thread for mere entertainment purposes. From what I have read in this thread I can understand the view of both sides and though I must say that I think the little Goblins might have been going a bit overboard with their reactions. But so far the disussion was (for eve standards) extremely civilised and actually brought forth valid points from both sides.
And so far as someone who has had nothing to do with either side I did not see any need to put my opinion in the ring.

However:



Defacing the eve monument in the way that happened is not only a criminal act but also a **** in the face of the eve community as a whole. Insinuating that Noir. had anything to do with it to frame gevlon without any evidence in that direction is, in my opinion, the lowest blow on the eve forums I have seen so far.
I mean, seriously? Are real life crime accusations really in order here? In a discussion of "who shot whom and was that ok?"
Giving false leads and wrongful (and wild) accusations slows down the process of actually finding the guy who did this to the monument.
If anybody knows anything that could help CCP in that matter, contact them and do not throw crime accusations around the forums please.

Its funny how when someone made a direct accusation (most definitely false) that Gevlon had something to do with it you were perfectly ok with that weren't you. No post about that. You didn't need evidence for that did you. You may wish to add something about that in your original post might you.

However I didn't insinuate Noir had anything to do with it. I pointed out the Gevlon wasn't at fanfest so couldn't have defaced the momument and the 'twitter account that looks kind of fake' is most definitely fake. Stop reading stuff like a Noir contract making stuff up that isn't there please.

.....And with that we're done with Goblin.

If you didn't want them, why did you have them in the first place?

I have never been a fan of NOIR. or Aleks, but the fact that sperging goblin is so mad at them for not being his personal anti-goon pets makes me want to hire them on a regular basis. Bravo chaps.

Counterpoint: nobody cares what Lemmings have to think about anything.

The tl;dr is no one cares. The community doesnt care, Noir. will go one doing what they do for years, goons will go on doing what they do. You will continue raging and analyzing killboards for an ever shrinking audience of people that really only ever wanted to read about grinding isk.

Hint: nobody cares about killboards or ratios in the year of our lord 2014 except lowsec pirates. Maybe try paying them to do something?

shouldn't gevlon?

so, more rumours, more assumptions, and not a single fact in sight.

on the day shown in the evidence.

Where is the proof? Here Is proof that Noir. On Tuesday said that Gevlon scammed them, after attempts to contact him had been blocked at each attempt. If you can prove that on "Saturday" or before Tuesday Noir. was calling Gevlon a scammer please provide it.

And believe me or not I did not know that it was Gevlons alt, we killed that character so many times because it was a wartarget and on grid with us.

Terminus, why arn't you following me on Twitter? #Questfor700

Yes Joseph as you can see from the mails posted from the very beginning Goblin said he would not be paying what he owed and blocking us as we tried to talk to him. This went on till Tues where we made the call this was no misunderstanding he was just breaking contract. Welcome to like a week ago...

If Gobs had a legit concern he'd have talked to me about it. If he wasnt comfortable doing that for whaetever reason he would have tried to involve the Merc Contracts Channel mods to arbitrate (which I tried to do on our end, obviously they didnt have much success bringing Goblin to the table either). That he didn't pretty much tells you all you need to know.

Then you're on the wrong side. Gobbo tried to scam Noir, got caught, and you for whatever reason can't see through the smokescreen smear campaign he's got going with his rodent minions.

I'm sure they are shaking with fear. That's just another sign of Gevlon's peasantry. 20B for people to find and kill a titan that may or may not exist and if it does will be protected by a POS and a formidable mercenary corp? That's just not going to happen. Nobody is going to go through that much effort for chump change.

Can we stop talking about this now?

Lol, what false allegations? Noir said he didn't pay, Gevlon has admitted this. Gevlon has even admitted that they did work he should have paid for but didn't.

They continued killing everyone in Jita because it was fun. If anyone scammed anyone here, Gevlon scammed Noir, since he got them to do a contract, then outright refused to pay. I know that's hard for you to accept since he's your leader and you have to suck up to him and all that, but that's just the way it goes buddy. Noir made no false allegations, they made very factual statements about Gevlon's refusal to pay.

both parties have agreed were the facts, are false.

As long as Gob continues to pretend we/I was "out to get him from the beginning" there's really no point in continuing to talk about any of it tbh.

Gob scammed, Gob got caught. Gob tried to smear his victim to get away with it, Gob got caught. Gob thought it wouldn't have consequences, Noir. took away 4 months of his life.

We've been transparent throughout the entire process, defending against Goblin's accusations with raw info including his own words. His own blogging admits that he owes us money but he refuses to pay it because of an increasingly elaborate set of excuses ranging from "they were protecting Goons" to "Alek is Erotica 1." We have tried contacting him multiple times to negotiate with him including involving the Merc Contract channel mods to arbitrate and inviting Gevlon on Declarations of War (as well as Legacy of a Capsuleer or EVE Radio to be released shortly) all of which he has ignored or declined.

From our POV it's over. Nothing will change Goblin's mind, we've already inflicted an appropriate penalty for his actions, and he doesn't seem to care about repairing his reputation. I doubt anyone will kill our titan any time soon and if they did, I strongly doubt it will be because of Goblin's "bounty" since the whole incident spawned out of him refusing to pay bounties in the first place. He and his readers/pets can continue to bleat but the story is pretty much played out and I expect anyone who cares about it has made up their mind one way or the other how to interpret events.

As we've said, if you think and behave like Goblin did/does we are as uninterested in having you as a client as you are hiring us.

Found video of Goblin and Joe. EXPECT THEM

EDIT: Also, Ginger Martin Luther King